This is a great example of one of the flaws in the Oregon and now the Colorado experiments. Not enough time is allowed for proper intake and prep, especially with a younger first time client being given the highest allowed dose of psilocybin. I know a number of very experienced underground practitioners that, given her background with depression etc, would have spend a significant amount of time with intake and prep and most likely would never start with psilocybin. Most would opt to start with a lower dose of MDMA. It's best to start with a really experience facilitator to learn the art and science of navigating non-ordinary states of consciousness. Unfortunately a legal environment for this does not exist.
I don't think it's an inherent problem with the Oregon model. Licensed facilitators are allowed to do longer intakes. Sounds like the problem was that the facilitator wasn't trained to consider that as an option, and wasn't trained to do a more thorough assessment, and wasn't trained that high doses shouldn't be given to first timers. Some training programs are very explicit about those things. Makes me wonder what training program the facilitator went to. That program should absolutely be told about this incident.
I agree that training and preparation clearly matter, but I also think there’s a deeper issue here that often gets missed. Even with excellent screening, prep, and facilitation, there will always be a small percentage of people who respond unpredictably. Focusing entirely on “provider error” can obscure that reality - it's a comforting delusion. The real scandal, to me, is how little public acknowledgment there is that serious adverse reactions do happen - and how little thought has gone into what to do when they do.
And even the common dose logic isn’t straightforward: early LSD work suggested that *lower* doses correlated with more post-session depression, because difficult material was stirred up but not fully “worked through.” In other words, the dose–response curve for risk isn’t linear, which is exactly why we need honest acknowledgement of unpredictability and robust plans for aftercare.
Super interesting to read. I hadn’t heard before that young women with little psychedelic exposure are more likely to have this kind of experience. I was a bit younger than your subject here when I had a super challenging trip and started having weed-induced flashbacks… exactly the same trip, for hours! Best wishes to her, that’s so tough.
Indeed. I’d say days, weeks, months after. And the flashbacks were wild - as if I was experiencing exactly the same trip again, including the almost complete loss of touch with reality.
Ended up “training” myself to smoke again using consecutively larger puffs because I really enjoyed that at the time.
This is a great example of one of the flaws in the Oregon and now the Colorado experiments. Not enough time is allowed for proper intake and prep, especially with a younger first time client being given the highest allowed dose of psilocybin. I know a number of very experienced underground practitioners that, given her background with depression etc, would have spend a significant amount of time with intake and prep and most likely would never start with psilocybin. Most would opt to start with a lower dose of MDMA. It's best to start with a really experience facilitator to learn the art and science of navigating non-ordinary states of consciousness. Unfortunately a legal environment for this does not exist.
I don't think it's an inherent problem with the Oregon model. Licensed facilitators are allowed to do longer intakes. Sounds like the problem was that the facilitator wasn't trained to consider that as an option, and wasn't trained to do a more thorough assessment, and wasn't trained that high doses shouldn't be given to first timers. Some training programs are very explicit about those things. Makes me wonder what training program the facilitator went to. That program should absolutely be told about this incident.
I agree that training and preparation clearly matter, but I also think there’s a deeper issue here that often gets missed. Even with excellent screening, prep, and facilitation, there will always be a small percentage of people who respond unpredictably. Focusing entirely on “provider error” can obscure that reality - it's a comforting delusion. The real scandal, to me, is how little public acknowledgment there is that serious adverse reactions do happen - and how little thought has gone into what to do when they do.
And even the common dose logic isn’t straightforward: early LSD work suggested that *lower* doses correlated with more post-session depression, because difficult material was stirred up but not fully “worked through.” In other words, the dose–response curve for risk isn’t linear, which is exactly why we need honest acknowledgement of unpredictability and robust plans for aftercare.
Glad Jennifer found this resource and community!
Thank you, I appreciate that perspective.
Super interesting to read. I hadn’t heard before that young women with little psychedelic exposure are more likely to have this kind of experience. I was a bit younger than your subject here when I had a super challenging trip and started having weed-induced flashbacks… exactly the same trip, for hours! Best wishes to her, that’s so tough.
weed induced flashbacks days / weeks after the trip?
Indeed. I’d say days, weeks, months after. And the flashbacks were wild - as if I was experiencing exactly the same trip again, including the almost complete loss of touch with reality.
Ended up “training” myself to smoke again using consecutively larger puffs because I really enjoyed that at the time.
So glad ChatGPT is recommending CPEP!
i know me too!