Hi Jules, wonderful artcle - I admire your proactivity in reaching out to his team. Inspiring, and well done!
I feel this could have been prevented, easily. The lack of support this guy had in the aftermath is horrifying. I'm so glad he is doing well and my bet is that his charity takes off as pilot mental health is a great problem to start helping.
i agree, he could possibly have been stabilized with some good care by the people he was with. flying 48 hours after tripping is a risk, i think, one which a lot of people take these days when they fly off to retreats etc.
Yes, and even before that - taking a fistful of mushrooms for the first time with no preparation in a really sensitive environment (a weekend dedicated to a dear, deceased friend) is a recipe for a disaster.
To me, the error here is not on mushrooms, but on a lack of knowledge and reverence for their power. The takeaway is not to be scared of them, or to want to control them - but to elevate them as a doorway to potentially life shaking experiences that deserve our respect and awe.
Nearly every story like this comes down to the basics: set, setting, and support. My heart goes out to this guy - I wish I could have been there. He just needed some compassion and attention.
Yep. Alcohol, a serious lack of sleep, working excessively, and unsupported bereavement isn’t great in combination with mushrooms. This is not solely about the dangers of psychedelics. This is about the dangers of inappropriate mind and body set, setting and psyche along with psychedelics. And yet there isn’t enough education around this, I guess.
I’m glad there was a silver lining and the whole thing had made Joseph a better husband and father. What an awful thing to go through. No one deserves to experience derealization.
Who denies adverse effects? That’s ridiculous! It’s obvious that there are adverse effects. Even alcohol producers can’t deny adverse effects of alcohol so how can psychedelic groups deny adverse effects of psychedelics? It might not be all they focus on, but to outright deny adverse effects would be insane.
Aye. But education on the correct amount of water to consume is useful. It’s more complicated with psychedelics because underlying mental health issues play a role in the onset of adverse effects, as well as body and mind set and setting. These factors don’t really play a role in water consumption.
I have never seen a ‘mainstream psychedelic group’ denying that psychedelics can have any adverse effects though!
Echoing the sentiments here, great work Jules. So much of this heartbreaking story could have been avoided. Folks know so little about proper preparation and creating an environment of safety, I hope as an ecosystem we can all work to change this.
Interestingly enough in the community conversations I host, I’ve spoken with a handful of folks who have HPPD, most present more ‘traditional’ symptoms, and each person started having symptoms after mixing substances. Would be interesting to know if there is causation here.
Lots of bad trips are down chain from drinking. Inhibitions down, late into the night, someone arrives with mushrooms, thoughtless consumption. Pair that with coming down from the alcohol as the psilocybin hits and then the inevitable lack of sleep - surefire recipe for terrible outcomes.
Jules, this is one of the best stories you've ever written — and I'm so happy that the person was saved from such a terrible injustice by what was, in part, a community effort!
People rightfully point out that he was probably already destabilized and drunk, but this is a relatively minor detail.
I was appalled, though, by learning that he was imprisoned instead of hospitalized, and didn't get a psychiatric assessment. How could this even be possible, and why didn't this alone constitute grounds for dismissal of charges? Can anyone here explain it to me?
well i think that probably happens all the time. AI tells me that among individuals arrested for various crimes, an estimated 60% test positive for illicit drugs at the time of their arrest. the cops don't think 'this person is high and needs medical attention', i guess most often they think something like 'this person is drunk, or on crack, and is therefore unpredictable and possibly violent'.
Thanks! There's a big difference between a burglary and an airline pilot doing some crazy stuff mid-air. This sounds like a clear case where a medical evaluation is warranted. Maybe it's a question of how mental illness is treated in the US and how its relationship to crime is seen.
The mental health industry has the power to lock you up without due recourse. The criminal justice industry at least has trial by jury or a judge minimally. He was lucky not to fall into the hands of the former.
This is incredible work, Jules. As a practitioner, its very easy to read the circumstances of his trip and be aghast at the set, setting (sleep deprived, drunk on whiskey?????), and lack of support from his “friends” who were also there. But it is a potent reminder that widespread harm reduction principles regarding safe use of psychedelics have not yet entered the mainstream to a sufficient degree, and it seems that we have a very long way to go.
thank you James! yes exactly - of course, professionals in the psychedelics world will be aghast at the 'set and setting' but realistically thats how a lot of people take psychedelics (just like alcohol consumption is incredibly reckless, still, when we know far more about the risks)
Jules, this was such a harrowing but compelling read. I really feel for Joseph. Thank goodness you were able to help him with his defence and that he is now able to move forward with his life.
Amazing article Jules, as someone who was a flight attendant during this event, I was so curious to hear more about what happened. Honestly, still not sure what to make of it or how I feel-- but I do really feel for Joseph and know firsthand how little mental health support pilots get. On the flip side, I always looked down on fellow crew members or pilots for risking it with mushrooms just because they wouldn't show up on a drug test.
After smoking hashish every day for a month (1969), I began to have flashbacks to previous psychedelic trips. I thought someone put them in my food. My meals and sleep became irregular. I began hearing voices and thought I was followed. The latter could have been real, as I was a local leader in a radical political party.
I wound up "voluntarily" entering a mental hospital and endured a five month evaluation. Relapses occurred. Over the next eight years, I was in a hospital seven times until I got it that the employees made a living from my presence. Why should they help and potentially lose their jobs. I became non-compliant. Luckily I was engaged as an apprentice to a weaver and got an excellent private psychotherapist.
Since 1978, I've not taken meds or been hospitalized. For some time I was a leader in the local Mental Patients Liberation Project. Many years later, I was certified to facilitate peer support groups for hearing voices.
Important to note here is that the psychedelics opened me too quickly to realities about my life. Much too rapidly for me to understand. I had a lot of work to do on rejection and self-confidence.
Yup the one time i saw someone try that combo he started switching from love to hate literally ever single second. I love you! I'll kill you! I love you! Die!!!
I experienced something similar after my first trip in a controlled retreat environment. The effects lasted a little over a year, thankfully tapering considerably each month, yet I was routinely gaslit by the retreat host who said it “wasn’t the mushrooms.” I found that foods high in histamine caused my “mental flares” and I slowly learned what to avoid. It was a bumpy road. Thank you for providing this perspective and showing support.
I’m not sure of the exact terms? But immediately after the retreat, I didn’t recognize or relate to my husband or dog. They were strangers. My home, my friends felt foreign. It was as though all of my deepest connections had been wiped clean. Strangers I encountered had demon-like qualities? This obviously sounds strange but I could almost see their souls, as to whom was good or bad, and those who were bad could tell I could “see” them. This lasted about a month.
The overall hyper-awareness and intrusive thoughts lasted a little over a year. It was kick started by the retreat but I also had Covid not long after. My main symptoms were seeing these demon-like qualities in people, thinking that people were after me, having these strange flashes of feeling that I was in some underworld or alternate realm (your account of crossing the River Styx really resonated with me, it gave me hope during a very scary time, so thank you). It didn’t feel like a dream. I was aware these things were happening and that they weren’t real, so it wasn’t psychosis per se?
Seeing a therapist and psychiatrist really helped. I was ultimately diagnosed with PTSD. I found resolution mostly by being assured that I had not “gone crazy,” something that my retreat leader could not provide. She suggested that I was experiencing a spiritual emergency, which felt like such an empty explanation. I figured it was part genetic, physiological, and hormonal (I’m 47), so I stayed away from high histamine foods, eliminated all methylated-type supplements, and took note of how my cycle compounded my symptoms. Over time, the intrusive thoughts lessened. It has been almost two years.
Thank you for the work that you do. It is so incredibly important.
Thanks Eliza - as in derealization, feeling you’re in a dream? Out of interest, did you ever wonder if you really were in a dream or did you always know it was a psychological symptom? What (if anything) helped the symptoms pass - dietary changes mainly? Thanks!
This happened to my husband once. He was across the country from me and thought the portal back to reality was in Zion National park. Thankfully no one gave him his keys until he came out of it nearly a week later.
Another thing to consider is genetic snps like Slow COMT. I'm ridiculously sensitive to various things from caffeine, alcohol, creatine and several supplements. I'd be VERY wary of psychedelics of any sort, unless I got very experienced advice from someone who knew about Slow COMT in this setting. If this pilot has Slow COMT I wouldn't be surprised.
i think we will learn a lot more about genetic vulnerabilities / sensitivities to substances, drugs and medicines in the next few years and it will be super helpful.
Genetically, I process all drugs really slowly. This has an impact on the effect that a certain dose of a drug I might take has on my system. So I have to have that in mind. I avoid alcohol, coffee etc on a daily basis.
I think genetic variability is important to consider further along with the impact of poor sleep, polydrug use…. Bodyset should be something people taking psychedelics consider routinely. More research and education definitely needed!
And aging is huge on sensitivities too. Many menopausal women will tell you they can't deal with alcohol anymore and are super careful or don't bother anymore.
Hi Jules, wonderful artcle - I admire your proactivity in reaching out to his team. Inspiring, and well done!
I feel this could have been prevented, easily. The lack of support this guy had in the aftermath is horrifying. I'm so glad he is doing well and my bet is that his charity takes off as pilot mental health is a great problem to start helping.
i agree, he could possibly have been stabilized with some good care by the people he was with. flying 48 hours after tripping is a risk, i think, one which a lot of people take these days when they fly off to retreats etc.
Yes, and even before that - taking a fistful of mushrooms for the first time with no preparation in a really sensitive environment (a weekend dedicated to a dear, deceased friend) is a recipe for a disaster.
To me, the error here is not on mushrooms, but on a lack of knowledge and reverence for their power. The takeaway is not to be scared of them, or to want to control them - but to elevate them as a doorway to potentially life shaking experiences that deserve our respect and awe.
Nearly every story like this comes down to the basics: set, setting, and support. My heart goes out to this guy - I wish I could have been there. He just needed some compassion and attention.
Add to that 4 days of sleep deficit and a bottle of whiskey. I really feel for the guy.
Yep. Alcohol, a serious lack of sleep, working excessively, and unsupported bereavement isn’t great in combination with mushrooms. This is not solely about the dangers of psychedelics. This is about the dangers of inappropriate mind and body set, setting and psyche along with psychedelics. And yet there isn’t enough education around this, I guess.
I’m glad there was a silver lining and the whole thing had made Joseph a better husband and father. What an awful thing to go through. No one deserves to experience derealization.
Thank you for standing up for the facts that people can have adverse effects. Incredibly irresponsible for mainstream psychedelic groups to deny that.
Who denies adverse effects? That’s ridiculous! It’s obvious that there are adverse effects. Even alcohol producers can’t deny adverse effects of alcohol so how can psychedelic groups deny adverse effects of psychedelics? It might not be all they focus on, but to outright deny adverse effects would be insane.
You can have adverse affects from water if you drink too much. You don't blame the water.
Aye. But education on the correct amount of water to consume is useful. It’s more complicated with psychedelics because underlying mental health issues play a role in the onset of adverse effects, as well as body and mind set and setting. These factors don’t really play a role in water consumption.
I have never seen a ‘mainstream psychedelic group’ denying that psychedelics can have any adverse effects though!
Echoing the sentiments here, great work Jules. So much of this heartbreaking story could have been avoided. Folks know so little about proper preparation and creating an environment of safety, I hope as an ecosystem we can all work to change this.
Interestingly enough in the community conversations I host, I’ve spoken with a handful of folks who have HPPD, most present more ‘traditional’ symptoms, and each person started having symptoms after mixing substances. Would be interesting to know if there is causation here.
i believe psychedelics are very often mixed with cannabis. mixing with alcohol rarer but im sure it happens fairly often.
Lots of bad trips are down chain from drinking. Inhibitions down, late into the night, someone arrives with mushrooms, thoughtless consumption. Pair that with coming down from the alcohol as the psilocybin hits and then the inevitable lack of sleep - surefire recipe for terrible outcomes.
Jules, this is one of the best stories you've ever written — and I'm so happy that the person was saved from such a terrible injustice by what was, in part, a community effort!
People rightfully point out that he was probably already destabilized and drunk, but this is a relatively minor detail.
I was appalled, though, by learning that he was imprisoned instead of hospitalized, and didn't get a psychiatric assessment. How could this even be possible, and why didn't this alone constitute grounds for dismissal of charges? Can anyone here explain it to me?
well i think that probably happens all the time. AI tells me that among individuals arrested for various crimes, an estimated 60% test positive for illicit drugs at the time of their arrest. the cops don't think 'this person is high and needs medical attention', i guess most often they think something like 'this person is drunk, or on crack, and is therefore unpredictable and possibly violent'.
Thanks! There's a big difference between a burglary and an airline pilot doing some crazy stuff mid-air. This sounds like a clear case where a medical evaluation is warranted. Maybe it's a question of how mental illness is treated in the US and how its relationship to crime is seen.
I would love to see a proper source on that, because if true that seems like a shocking number to me
The mental health industry has the power to lock you up without due recourse. The criminal justice industry at least has trial by jury or a judge minimally. He was lucky not to fall into the hands of the former.
its not a minor detail- its the whole fucken point.
This is incredible work, Jules. As a practitioner, its very easy to read the circumstances of his trip and be aghast at the set, setting (sleep deprived, drunk on whiskey?????), and lack of support from his “friends” who were also there. But it is a potent reminder that widespread harm reduction principles regarding safe use of psychedelics have not yet entered the mainstream to a sufficient degree, and it seems that we have a very long way to go.
thank you James! yes exactly - of course, professionals in the psychedelics world will be aghast at the 'set and setting' but realistically thats how a lot of people take psychedelics (just like alcohol consumption is incredibly reckless, still, when we know far more about the risks)
Jules, this was such a harrowing but compelling read. I really feel for Joseph. Thank goodness you were able to help him with his defence and that he is now able to move forward with his life.
yes, great that he's not heading back to jail for a year. and thank God no one was physically hurt in the incident.
Amazing article Jules, as someone who was a flight attendant during this event, I was so curious to hear more about what happened. Honestly, still not sure what to make of it or how I feel-- but I do really feel for Joseph and know firsthand how little mental health support pilots get. On the flip side, I always looked down on fellow crew members or pilots for risking it with mushrooms just because they wouldn't show up on a drug test.
After smoking hashish every day for a month (1969), I began to have flashbacks to previous psychedelic trips. I thought someone put them in my food. My meals and sleep became irregular. I began hearing voices and thought I was followed. The latter could have been real, as I was a local leader in a radical political party.
I wound up "voluntarily" entering a mental hospital and endured a five month evaluation. Relapses occurred. Over the next eight years, I was in a hospital seven times until I got it that the employees made a living from my presence. Why should they help and potentially lose their jobs. I became non-compliant. Luckily I was engaged as an apprentice to a weaver and got an excellent private psychotherapist.
Since 1978, I've not taken meds or been hospitalized. For some time I was a leader in the local Mental Patients Liberation Project. Many years later, I was certified to facilitate peer support groups for hearing voices.
Important to note here is that the psychedelics opened me too quickly to realities about my life. Much too rapidly for me to understand. I had a lot of work to do on rejection and self-confidence.
Alcohol doesn’t mix well with mushrooms
Yup the one time i saw someone try that combo he started switching from love to hate literally ever single second. I love you! I'll kill you! I love you! Die!!!
Great review
This guy was sleep deprived and quite drunk when he swallowed the mushrooms.
That needs to be considered.
Those two things could be very relevant
for sure.
I experienced something similar after my first trip in a controlled retreat environment. The effects lasted a little over a year, thankfully tapering considerably each month, yet I was routinely gaslit by the retreat host who said it “wasn’t the mushrooms.” I found that foods high in histamine caused my “mental flares” and I slowly learned what to avoid. It was a bumpy road. Thank you for providing this perspective and showing support.
I’m not sure of the exact terms? But immediately after the retreat, I didn’t recognize or relate to my husband or dog. They were strangers. My home, my friends felt foreign. It was as though all of my deepest connections had been wiped clean. Strangers I encountered had demon-like qualities? This obviously sounds strange but I could almost see their souls, as to whom was good or bad, and those who were bad could tell I could “see” them. This lasted about a month.
The overall hyper-awareness and intrusive thoughts lasted a little over a year. It was kick started by the retreat but I also had Covid not long after. My main symptoms were seeing these demon-like qualities in people, thinking that people were after me, having these strange flashes of feeling that I was in some underworld or alternate realm (your account of crossing the River Styx really resonated with me, it gave me hope during a very scary time, so thank you). It didn’t feel like a dream. I was aware these things were happening and that they weren’t real, so it wasn’t psychosis per se?
Seeing a therapist and psychiatrist really helped. I was ultimately diagnosed with PTSD. I found resolution mostly by being assured that I had not “gone crazy,” something that my retreat leader could not provide. She suggested that I was experiencing a spiritual emergency, which felt like such an empty explanation. I figured it was part genetic, physiological, and hormonal (I’m 47), so I stayed away from high histamine foods, eliminated all methylated-type supplements, and took note of how my cycle compounded my symptoms. Over time, the intrusive thoughts lessened. It has been almost two years.
Thank you for the work that you do. It is so incredibly important.
thank you, im so glad youre feeling better. id be happy to interview you for our stories of recovery section if youre willing?
Thanks Eliza - as in derealization, feeling you’re in a dream? Out of interest, did you ever wonder if you really were in a dream or did you always know it was a psychological symptom? What (if anything) helped the symptoms pass - dietary changes mainly? Thanks!
How many times have we said, do not operate heavy machinery under the influence of psychedelics!?
This happened to my husband once. He was across the country from me and thought the portal back to reality was in Zion National park. Thankfully no one gave him his keys until he came out of it nearly a week later.
Another thing to consider is genetic snps like Slow COMT. I'm ridiculously sensitive to various things from caffeine, alcohol, creatine and several supplements. I'd be VERY wary of psychedelics of any sort, unless I got very experienced advice from someone who knew about Slow COMT in this setting. If this pilot has Slow COMT I wouldn't be surprised.
i think we will learn a lot more about genetic vulnerabilities / sensitivities to substances, drugs and medicines in the next few years and it will be super helpful.
Genetically, I process all drugs really slowly. This has an impact on the effect that a certain dose of a drug I might take has on my system. So I have to have that in mind. I avoid alcohol, coffee etc on a daily basis.
I think genetic variability is important to consider further along with the impact of poor sleep, polydrug use…. Bodyset should be something people taking psychedelics consider routinely. More research and education definitely needed!
And aging is huge on sensitivities too. Many menopausal women will tell you they can't deal with alcohol anymore and are super careful or don't bother anymore.
Good point! The effects of psychedelics on women (or those born female) needs to be studied more comprehensively!
You can bet all the studies to date are on men. Sigh.
A lot of medical research of all kinds focuses on (white) men. Dr Grace Blest Hopley is keen to change the field in this regard.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rvZ6bzsQpM4
Have to wonder whether his alcohol intoxication was a factor
You really helped this guy out by advising. Nice work.
who knows, maybe the research helped, nice to think so anyway!